;)
Tuesday
Aug042009
Or Maybe I Just Suck
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 at 4:06AM
Today, my husband and I fought in front of our children for the first time ever.
EVER.
Like, in 11 and a half years ever.
I don't mean to say that we don't ever fight because god knows we do. If you've ever dared to dip your toes in the murky waters that are my archives, you'll know what I mean. And Christ, I met him when I was twenty. I've gone through no less than 10 variations of myself between then and now, and so has he. Our shit, it is hard sometimes. But coming from two spilt families, me with my history of domestic assault and him with his abandonment baggage, we've worked really hard to keep our crap between us. Sure, we fight, but we don't do it often and when we do, it's over as soon as it starts.
Usually, I will start being an insane asshole and he'll tell me to go take a five minute walk and sort it out. Or he'll open a big, fat can of jerkface and I'll tell him to check it before I am forced to wreck it and that ends it. We're actually really good at mitigating each others mood-swings, and because of that, our kids have never once born witness to anything more than a long scowl or a stern, "Other room, NOW."
It would seem that my Mercury was firmly lodged in his Uranus today or something, because while I was trying to get 2of3 to clean the damn bathroom, he decided that at that very second, 2of3 needed to take the vacuum to his brother. And I was so sick and tired of trying to get that kid upstairs to the bathroom, I told him no. And The Donor told him yes. So I told The Donor no, and he told me to fuck off and I told him to shove it up his ass and the threw the vacuum and I told him to get the fuck out.
Because we're five, that's why.
Meanwhile, my nine year old was just standing there watching this whole parade of lunacy unfold before him and as soon as dad walked out of the room, he started to cry.
Because we're fantastic parents, that's why.
And he told me he was scared, and I held him and told him that he fights worse than that with his brother every day and reminded him that I am a pain in the ass and his dad is an overbearing know-it-all and we've lived together for 14 long, long years and told him that of course we fight sometimes.
And now I don't know if I'm sad that my kid had to see us acting like three year olds or if I'm secretly a little glad that he witnesses an argument that resolved itself within ten minutes with a big hug and two unprompted and very sincere apologies that I made sure happened right in front of that kid and then ice cream, because ice cream cures all evils. Am I wrong to think that I should be teaching him that it's okay to have conflicts and that the world doesn't end when you have them? Because I lived thirty years thinking one raised voice meant the End Of Civilization as we know it, and I never learned how to fight and get over it until I had to learn the hard way.
There's really no point to this at all. I just worry sometimes that they think their parent's marriage is the perfect, happy go lucky thing and because of that, when their time comes, they will have no clue how to deal with the reality of marriage and the reality of marriage is that bitches, on occasion, be crazy, and you love them through it anyway.
Right?
EVER.
Like, in 11 and a half years ever.
I don't mean to say that we don't ever fight because god knows we do. If you've ever dared to dip your toes in the murky waters that are my archives, you'll know what I mean. And Christ, I met him when I was twenty. I've gone through no less than 10 variations of myself between then and now, and so has he. Our shit, it is hard sometimes. But coming from two spilt families, me with my history of domestic assault and him with his abandonment baggage, we've worked really hard to keep our crap between us. Sure, we fight, but we don't do it often and when we do, it's over as soon as it starts.
Usually, I will start being an insane asshole and he'll tell me to go take a five minute walk and sort it out. Or he'll open a big, fat can of jerkface and I'll tell him to check it before I am forced to wreck it and that ends it. We're actually really good at mitigating each others mood-swings, and because of that, our kids have never once born witness to anything more than a long scowl or a stern, "Other room, NOW."
It would seem that my Mercury was firmly lodged in his Uranus today or something, because while I was trying to get 2of3 to clean the damn bathroom, he decided that at that very second, 2of3 needed to take the vacuum to his brother. And I was so sick and tired of trying to get that kid upstairs to the bathroom, I told him no. And The Donor told him yes. So I told The Donor no, and he told me to fuck off and I told him to shove it up his ass and the threw the vacuum and I told him to get the fuck out.
Because we're five, that's why.
Meanwhile, my nine year old was just standing there watching this whole parade of lunacy unfold before him and as soon as dad walked out of the room, he started to cry.
Because we're fantastic parents, that's why.
And he told me he was scared, and I held him and told him that he fights worse than that with his brother every day and reminded him that I am a pain in the ass and his dad is an overbearing know-it-all and we've lived together for 14 long, long years and told him that of course we fight sometimes.
And now I don't know if I'm sad that my kid had to see us acting like three year olds or if I'm secretly a little glad that he witnesses an argument that resolved itself within ten minutes with a big hug and two unprompted and very sincere apologies that I made sure happened right in front of that kid and then ice cream, because ice cream cures all evils. Am I wrong to think that I should be teaching him that it's okay to have conflicts and that the world doesn't end when you have them? Because I lived thirty years thinking one raised voice meant the End Of Civilization as we know it, and I never learned how to fight and get over it until I had to learn the hard way.
There's really no point to this at all. I just worry sometimes that they think their parent's marriage is the perfect, happy go lucky thing and because of that, when their time comes, they will have no clue how to deal with the reality of marriage and the reality of marriage is that bitches, on occasion, be crazy, and you love them through it anyway.
Right?
Reader Comments (107)
We did that once last year and the boys were scared too. And I remembered the feelings of being a kid and listening to my mother fight with (insert random husband or boyfriend here). I held Dylan and Thomas and fought back tears.
Sometimes the mom guilt is f*cking overwhelming.
A) Who said people in perfect marriages don't argue?
B)Had to happen sometime. At least it was over something stupid, not, like, "I know you're f*cking your secretary!"
3) How long have you had a secretary?
I agree completely. I'm going to go out on a limb here because I'm not a parent but I do have parents, shock of all shock. My parents often fought in front of us but I rarely saw them fight in a healthy way. Because of that, I always knew they would eventually divorce. And they did. I believe that I am now trying to undue their unwitting legacy by learning how to fight fair with my husband. I wish they had shown me how. It would be much easier now. I have to fight with every fiber of my being to not get immediately defensive, to not pull a flight response, to not make ultimatums, to listen, to talk rather than yell. My humble not-a-mother-yet opinion? Fight in front of your kids but do it fairly. Use your words, as I'm sure you tell them. And make up in front of your kids. The rated G version anyhow. Be real in front of your kids.
Right!!!!!
I come from one of those Clever families, and let me tell you, once I hit college and my mother decided I was a "friend" vs. a "daughter" I finally learned what went on behind the closed door.
Without that knowledge, I would have left my husband after the first year. Almost 14 years later, we've been up and down and all around, things they fail to mention in Cinderella, you know?
Ice cream. Good call.
I only, and I mean ONLY save the 'Too the Batmobile' seclusion of arguments for when I need to call My Donor a mutherfuckingpaininmyass. Other than that, I am a firm believer in letting kids see that marriage is work, you don't run when it gets tough. And I use the line about us all fighting with each other and resolution as well.
I've never seen my parents fight - like, really fight. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, to be honest.
My husband never saw his parents argue. And I think it hurt him just a little, because he doesn't always have the skills to resolve an argument. Disagreements and fighting are all a part of life. Not a desirable part, but a necessary part. How much fun would making up be if there were no arguments? I'm not saying argue all the time (that would be bad), but if they see you apologizing, admitting that you might be wrong, agreeing to disagree, whatever, they'll be a little better for it. You don't suck! The fact that what transpired upset you is proof of that.
My wife doesn't want to fight in front of our kids (although my oldest is barely four, so that may change with age). I have an opinion more similar to yours: the world isn't filled with sycophants; we aren't all going to agree all the time. It's normal for people to get upset when disagreeing, and I think that modeling the path to overcoming hurt feelings is also important.
Failing all that, just remember The Simpsons episode, where Marge and Homer disagree, and she stops him and they go out to the car to argue with the radio on. From inside, they show Lisa, "Mom and Dad are fighting. I hate it when they go out to the car like that."
My DH tends to argue less than I do, and we both try to hide it from our kids, but every so often we can't, and the oldest notices, but always says "Friends say they're sorry when they argue, and they don't always have to agree." Yes, daughter, that is true, so tell your dbag father to say he's sorry, and it's cool if I don't think he is always right!
I absolutely agree that fights and make-up should not be kept under wraps, how will they learn otherwise?
We had a doozy a few weeks ago in front of the kids, in the truck, and my hubby is still upset that we did that in front of them.
Mostly he is upset that I told him exactly where to go in front of the kids. I told him he WAS being an %$#^&*!!!! at that moment and I wouldn't want my daughter thinking I was a wuss, or she would grow up to be one.
I want her to be able to call a ^%$# a ^%$# at the appropriate moment and I want her to know how to make up too.
My son gets plenty of examples of how to be an overbearing ^%$#, so it is also nice for him to see women fighting back so he doesn't think men get away with their ^%$# all the time.
I think it is important for kids to see parents fight; NOT the kinds of fights we all grew up with, at all, but the kind where it CAN be resolved, and better in the long run if they know that people-adults-don't get along all of the time, that it is hard work and also that it is simply part of sharing a life with someone.
You have no idea how hard this hits home today. And now I want to cry.
I believe in letting your kids see you fight. They need to see that things aren't always smooth sailing and that at the end of the day you make up and get back to the business of living. They need to see that it never just works, you have to make it work.
I believe that, but I also believe that if you are going to fight in front of the kids, there are clear rules, no name calling, no treating each other like shit, no hurting the other person just for the oh-so-short rush you get from the crushed look on their face, etc.
If you can't follow the rules and fight FAIR, then you don't need to do it in front of your kids. I've been trying to teach my donor to fight fair for four years. After holding my four year old after the last fight and assuring her that this is going to get better, I realized, I can't do it. I can't make him fight fair, so it's to the deck with us.
I think the important thing is that they see the trajectory of the whole thing. You disagree, it escalates, you fight, you calm down and go to your separate corners, you apologize and you make up and come up with a compromise. I'm sure my girl knows we're fighting when we head to the deck, but she still sees the whole process.
My parents tried not to fight in front of me, but I knew. I think kids on some level always know.
But, for what it's worth coming from single, child-free me, I think, if they're going to see you fight, it's good for them to see one that resolves itself. Like you said, so they know that it doesn't end at the fighting.
I *love* my marriage. Seriously. Love. Think it's the best thing ever.
Does that mean we don't argue? HAHAHAHAHAHA! Hell no!
I want my beautiful, smart, loud, temper-blessed daughters to understand that yelling doesn't mean you don't love someone anymore. We've had some talks about how sometimes yelling is just a way to let the other person know you really, REALLY need to be heard.
My kids don't flinch if I yell at them OR yell at daddy. Of course, I also have to not flinch when they yell at me LOL but hey, if they're frustrated and it makes them feel better, why shouldn't they?
We just had a conversation yesterday about how you can't yell at school because not everyone yells for the same reasons and you might make the other kids scared you're hurt or that you might hurt their feelings.
Parenting would be so much easier if I didn't have to worry about the rest of the world reacting to my still-learning children.
But yeah, I think that as long as your kids see the making-up or resolution after the fighting they're going to learn that yelling doesn't mean "I don't love you." and yelling doesn't mean "I'm leaving." -- it just means "I'm angry and NEED you to hear me right now"
I don't know the answer. Some kids have parents who never have a cross word, but it doesn't prepare them for the real world. Some (like me) had parents who fought tooth and nail all the time. Bitter, angry words that scared the crap out of us. That wasn't healthy either. Somewhere in between would be nice, though kids won't appreciate how realistic it is to have a difference of opinion with someone you're attempting to spend the rest of your life with...but hopefully...they'll figure it out.
I find I HAVE to have these fights with my husband in front of the kids - our styles for fighting are completely different (he likes to internalize everything, and then wanders around, all grumpy and crap, and I blow up, get it out there, and then it's done) because my two were picking up on the stress levels and thought he was mad at THEM.
I think if two adults can fight without slagging each other (raised voices are okay - calling him a !@#$ !@@## !@#$#$$ is not) it's a benefit to children. Isn't a big part of parenting teaching them how to disagree nicely? (Share! Take turns! Don't yell!)
I think you did great.
oh holy heck.
eight months of fighting.
and it is only NOW getting better.
their understanding and impression of it all.. tbd.
My son sees a counselor for some social anxiety issues. Every time my husband and I visit with the counselor, he asks how we as a couple are doing. We tell him honestly that we're good. More than once, he has asked us if we have disagreements in front of the kids. We tell him that we usually do not and he repeatedly tells us that we shouldn't hide those from the kids because they'll have a warped idea of marriage. Exactly what someone up above said - that they won't know that marriage is work, that they won't know that disagreements between partners are normal and can be worked out.
It still makes me a bit uncomfortable to tell you the truth. It's a slippery slope between "disagreement" and "full-on fight with curse words" sometimes. And I don't exactly want to go there in front of the kids. But ultimately, I think the counselor and my esteemed co-commenters are right. A dose of reality is probably good for the kids - as long as it's not constant and they get to see the resolution.
Great post.
I never really saw my parents fight... as I got older, I understood my dad was sort of an asshole, in an elitist, esoteric way, and my mom just took it. I think it's good for kids to know fighting and disagreements happen, but maybe bad for them to see the nuts and bolts every single time. I never saw it though, and I'm left feeling sort of unprepared for constructively handling disagreements with my spouse. Neither of us knows how to argue... properly... ahhh now I'm scared.
On Sunday we went to dinner at a neighbor's. It's maybe 20 houses away, but down a hill, which means up a hill on the way back. It was bedtime for the 3year old and the 1year old. It was 90 degrees and 90% humidity. And we hadn't brought the stroller because the husband insisted the girls walk that far all the time - we don't need it. And I'm pregnant. ONe girl started crying, then the other. The husband picked them both up and handed me all the stuff to carry - the bag with the glass bowl with the salad we had brought, the diaper bag, and the bag with swimsuits, towels, sunscreen etc. from their sprinkler games.
We almost never fight, period. But I wasn't feeling well and he started walking ahead of me and then my older daughter asked why I was so far back and he teased because of my short legs (he's almost a foot taller than me). I started crying. I was so hot and uncomfortable and wasn't breathing well and though he's usually attuned to all that he was completely oblivious. I dropped all three bags right in the middle of the street and walked past him up the hill by myself and sat on the porch shaking and crying. He had the keys, too. I couldn't even get in to the air conditioning. Somehow he went backwards, picked up all three bags along with 60 pounds of children and carried all of that up the hill to where I was crying on the porch. The girls sort of freaked out - they don't often see me cry. But they also saw their daddy drop everything, lean down, give me a big hug, lead me inside to the couch and bring me a tall glass of water.
I think it's okay for them to see our conflicts as long as we also show them how we handle those conflicts.
You've never fought in front of the kids? Damn. Chris and I very rarely fight, but when we do, neither of us is adult enough to save if for when the kids aren't gazing at us with rapt attention, and we're only four years in.
But yeah, I think it is good for kids to know that people who love each other fight sometimes and still love each other after.
We try hard not to argue in front of the kids as well but sometimes it does happen. I think them see you apolgize and make up in the end is the real life lesson.
You shouldn't worry. I think you got it spot-on when you said that the important thing is they saw you resolve the issue right in front of them. I'm always worrying about stuff like that, too. All you can do is your best, eh?
My parents had one fight in my entire memory and ultimately divorced, I think perhaps because there wasn't enough real love there to fight for. And you know, chances are good that your kids will (or already do) care about people who grew up (or are growing up) in homes where fighting is common.
People have conflicts, and I think that you were able to end yours with a healthy, demonstrable resolution is really admirable. I definitely wouldn't kick yourself over it - in my experience, perfectionism is a much harder thing to overcome!
The only times we have argued in front of the boys has been when I said that they needed to do one thing (like get in the bathtub) and he decided they should do something else (like rough-house) when that is SUCH A FUCKING AWESOME IDEA BEFORE BEDTIME. I remember throwing my hands in the air and saying, "I'm done. You have a good time." and found the warm glow of my computer. I feel guilty checking out like that in front of them, and he didn't apologize in to me in their presence either, but they knew I was pissed and he was sorry.
I have to agree w/ the others that arguing in front of them is healthy, but there is a line. We've seen that line. It starts with yelling and ends with a hammer nearly missing someone's head and staying embedded in the wall.
I totally agree with you, that kids should see their parents disagree, and make up. Conflict is real, and kids need to learn about it. My husband has never seen his parents fight, or even disagree. His mother is completely passive, simplistic, and naive, and his father just enables her. They have a bizarre relationship, and they have sheltered their children far too much (IMHO), to the point that my SIL can't/won't do a single thing for herself and has a completely unrealistic view of relationships. My husband is only now learning that it is completely ok to disagree with me, and to speak up to get what he wants, and we've been married for nearly 3 years, and together for years before that. He doesn't know how to argue, doesn't understand conflict, and for years I've had to deal with him feeling as though the world was going to end just because I was expressing the fact that I was upset. He'd never seen it and had no clue how to deal with it. I came from the other end of the spectrum, and definitely had my own issues to deal with and had to learn to be a better communicator as well, but I think that the fact that his parents sheltered him to such an extent that in nearly 30 years he's never seen them argue has not served him well. At this point, having discussed it, he agrees.
Please fight and make up in front of kids! I am another one who entered my adult relationships with a crazy intense fear of raised voices or conflict and it took a long time and lots of therapy for me to learn that fights are OK. Kids should know that.
I listened to an old This American Life yesterday about marriage. There was a study that showed all couples fight and get angry about the same things but the predictor of longevity or divorce was HOW the couple fought -mean or healthy.
Although it's hard to see, sometimes, when you're on the inside looking out, your instincts are good and true and you guys did good. Sometimes the lesson that it's natural to disagree is just as important as the lesson about trying to get along. The lesson about making up is just as critical as the lesson about compromising. Nah, you did good. You scared the kid - but you also showed him there was really nothing to be scared of - and that's the really important part.
My husband and I met when I was fifteen, we've been through a lot. We waited until I was 26 before having our first kid. We worked out a lot of stuff before having kids which was good, but still had/have stuff to work out even now. We both came from severely messed up childhoods with no good examples of healthy relationships so the whole thing is a learning experience for us. We both try really hard though to set a good example for our kids and that's what matters. Fighting happens, it's how you do it and showing the kids how to resolve the conflicts that matters. That being said the few times that we have had serious arguments in front of the kids (even though we made up afterwards) have freaked me out, and made me sick to my stomach...not something I think is okay and something that I try hard to avoid. I just hated living through that as a kid and I don't want to do it to mine. My parents never fought fair. Ever. My mom tried, but it never worked. I think it's awesome that you figured out a way to make it a learning experience for your kids. That's really what counts if you ask me.
Oh. You got a lot of comments here already, don't know if you'll read/see mine.
I grew up without a dad (left when I was 5, same thing), so never witnessed a fight that I remember. So, never had one demonstrated to me, so, had not a clue in a marriage what one looked like.
All I know is that, when it comes to this type thing--if respect (I know I know) is involved in the actual "fight" then I believe it's ok for the kiddoes to see/hear it.
If not, say, obscenities are thrown about, and other objects (physical flying things, like the vacuum) then, uh, no. Violence (and throwing things at each other, or near each other) is never ok. I know, I'm in that kind of marriage.
It always feels very wrong, and very sad, and very scary to me when it becomes flying object time. And I've been in the same marriage, with the same @#$% for 20 YEARS now. It hasn't gotten better, or worse. Just the same.
I read in Dear Abby a month or so ago, a woman who wrote in asking Abby about her husband who did similar stuff, but he never said he was sorry or apologied after. (I have this very same husband--and no, it wasn't me who wrote in) and Abby said that if there was no remorse, or apology after an incident, then it demonstrated a character flaw. And oh boy, I grabbed that piece of information and kept it to me in my heart.
My husband is character flawed. And that's all the explanation I get for when he's "like that" and I get to either flee, or not. And then go "back to normal" when he seems to have forgotten what he did or said.
Sounds like you got the better dealio.
I've read your archives, and well, that's all.
Love,
Julie
Love bitches anyway? Wellllll…
Ron’s Rules of Order.
To the family: I make a motion that mom is power crazy cactus and needs to get a life, because I’m throwing her out of mine and keeping the kids. Can I get a second to the motion on the floor?
Junior who is on my side: I second the motion.
All in favor raise your hand, all opposed, like sign.
Mom: Wait a minute, I make a motion that dad is a fart bag from Septic Junction, Utah and has an ego the size of Alaska. And you’re not taking my kids. Those are my kids.
That fight feels pretty good to kids. Not sure how to respond to whether or not you suck, cuz like I assume you do if you say so. I think I’ve learned first hand (via Internetz) you’re pretty good with a katana and you take the art neutering to a world class level. On the other hand, in my house, mother rules. So if mom says, then dad says what mom says goes. NO DEBATE. There are too numerous a reasons to list here as to why. It’s just the natural order. Dad must learn, BJ’s are a privilege, not a right.
Now I actually was raised on Uranus and I saw my grandmother take a machete to my grandpa because my grandpa threatened her. The limb doesn’t fall too far from the tree and I saw my mom take a hot frying pan to the forehead of my dad. I was sitting next to him at the kitchen table when she clocked him so I got a little spatter on me as well. I think I draw the line at violence.
I think you’re on safe ground here in this situation. Did you really tell him to take it where the sun don’t shine? I prefer this over passive aggressive. I give you a 9.5 with a 9.8 for execution on that one.
As far as fights are concerned, there is only one real reason for fights as far as I’m concerned. Yes, that’s right, the make-up sex.
Have I helped at all here?
My parents fought all the time when I was growing up. It wasn't shouting, though. It was insults muttered under the breath. They were forever bad mouthing each other to my brother and I. They're divorced now (thank you Christ on a cracker), and we finally got the balls to tell them that we hated being in the middle.
Not really sure where I'm going with that, but I think it's very important for kids to see that sometimes people disagree, and say things they don't mean. But it's not the fight that matters, it's how you handle the apologies.
You're great parents, and they're lucky to have you.
You're showing your kids how real, decent people get through marriage. Because would it be fair for those kids to think people never, ever disagree, or get angry? And I think showing them the resolution part is so crazy important. That's the part my parents left out. I never knew when to NOT be on edge around them.
I feel like you're doing this right.
Very thought provoking post, and comments. My parents never fought in front of us kids, and I've tried hard never to in front of ours, though it's happened from time to time. Kind of mixed feelings here. I see the utility of teaching kids early on that conflicts happen and they can be solved without destroying relationships, but there's a fine line between what kids should learn and what they can handle at a particular age. I think it just comes down to teaching them that even though couples don't always agree, they should respect each other. At least that's what I got from my dad, who never said an unkind word about our mother in front of us even after she left. My problem is that I tend to brood about things and sometimes it takes me a few days to be able to let something go. And I have a difficult time arguing without becoming really pissed, especially if my side is not being seen or acknowledged, so I just retreat lest I turn into a raging asshole. Oh well, the untidiness of life. BTW, the makeup part in front of the kids is always good. Ice cream can solve a lot.
I saw my parents argue all the time, usually over paying the bills. But I also saw them come to calmer heads, and work together to figure out how to resolve the problem. Of course as a young child you want to believe your parents are the perfect people and the best of everything because that's all you know. I think what you taught your son is a critical skill for life because as we all know, people aren't perfect. They will experience conflict in all aspects of life and not just in marital relationships. But you showed him that although sometimes you will disagree at the time, there is resolve and there is love on the other side of the heavy emotions. I'm a lover, not a fighter myself. I don't handle conflict well but I also don't feel hopeless when they arise.
No, you are not wrong in any sense. I feel letting them see some disagreement and resolution makes you a better parent. It's just as ok to get a little PO'd now and then as it is to cry when your sad and smile when your happy. You are also right that when all else fails, ice cream fixes everything!
...can't live with 'em... can't shoot 'em....
It was good to let your kid see/hear you disagreeing loudly. That's life... and it isn't perfect! Your kids have to know that disagreements happen AND life goes on...
If there is LOVE then it works out and hugs and ice cream follow... if the love is gone -> then kids will know that (sometimes before the parents realize it) and steps have to be taken...
But (and there is always a BIG butttt in any situation), if the kids don't know about disagreements... what kind of significant other will they grow up to be????
YOU DONE GOOD ! ! ! !
It's SO important that they see you guys fight and it's ok. My parents did NOT fight well, and I now have a really hard time with fighting. Like, I avoid it at all costs, which is not healthy.
Seeing a conflict now and then will be healthy for them. Make sure you always talk it out and make up in front of them when it happens. (Uh, just the "I'm sorry" part. Not the bow-chicka-bow-wow part.)
I wholeheartedly agree with Jessi. My parents rarely fought but when they did it was terrifying so we thought that any fight was the end of the world as we knew it and had no idea that relationships were such hard work. I've always promised myself that my kids would grow up knowing about the man behind the curtain because it never does anyone any favours to think that everything is all shiny and perfect without any work.
Seeing honest, real, apologies does so much for kids and is a great example of showing the behaviour that you expect of them.
I think maybe I should let our son see us fight MORE often. Conflict resolution doesn't seem to be his strong suit. Maybe because he's 1of1, he doesn't have a chance to practice on a sibling. Yet another reason I think the vasectomy was a bad idea...
Ok, hold onto your ass, because I have a big comment.
Both my parents came from abusive homes. My mother more-so, with the family joke being how one time Grandma ended a fight with Grandpa by saying, "I've got matches and kerosene, and you have to sleep sometime." Anyway, both my parents decided never to fight in front of the kids because of their childhoods.
My husband also was raised in a household where both parents survived traumatic childhoods and made the decision that a happy household was one in which the parents never fought in front of kids.
My parents stayed married, so my baggage is that when people fight, I freak the eff out.
My husband's parents got divorced. So the first fight he saw them have was followed by the end of his family. His baggage is that when people fight, it is the end of the mothereffing world. (I think we were together for four years before he realized I wouldn't leave him if he said he was mad at me.)
By our quiet natures, my husband and I could have fights in the public library and not get thrown out. But we do fight in front of the kids (sometimes), all the way until the resolution.
There are two reasons for this. 1) So the kids see that normal people do fight/disagree and that they can still love each other and 2) Because when you know kids are listening, it keeps the parents honest with what they say and how they say it - no scorched earth commentary.
Anyway, sorry for hogging your comment section. It's just that the absence of fighting in my childhood left a big impression on me.
Over 35 yrs ago my aunt told my grandmother that she knew her first marriage was a failure right out of the gate because they fought and her mom and dad had never ONCE fought in front of their 4 children. My grandmother hates to know she contributed to her daughters feelings of failure in her first experience with a failed marriage.
You are right on. Part of the reason my first marriage failed was because my parents made it look SO easy and then when I got married I realized it is NOT easy!
I say RIGHT! Of course you don't want to have fights in front of your kids, but they do happen. And I think it's great for them to see you making up and apologizing. I never saw my parents fights, and I thought they had the perfect marriage. Then one day my dad left, and my world turned upside down. Seeing a little more of what their marriage was actually like may have helped. Who knows though...
I think having them see a fight is OK, even GOOD as long as you show mutual respect throughout and let them see you working toward a solution. Sometimes Aline and I get really nasty (not the good nasty) when we argue. When THAT shit happens in front of the kids, take it into the other room.
All in all, I think you're fine...expecting two people to live together forever and not lose it on each other once in a while is totally unrealistic. Let 'em see how it really goes down and they'll be better off for it later.
PS - Want to trade posts today? No one would notice.
I insist on sending the kid out of the room if I fight with the wife, but then of course we end up shouting through the walls, the kid being in her and all that.
I actually think - and have read - that it's good for kids to see their parents fight. It's important for them to learn that conflict - and conflict resolution - is natural.
Of course, my kids hearing me call their dad a dumb fuck might be going a little too far.
So you're not running off with Finchy just yet?
Been there. *Try* my hardest not to act like 3 year old in front of the kids. But, we're human. I see it as a great learning experience for them. They see that everyone acts inappropriately at times. And they can also see how to resolve conflict after acting inappropriately.
They come from a long line of yellers - my husband's side. I'll be damned if they end up that way...but I'm sure I'll mess them up in other ways.