Wednesday
Sep232009
Next Time, The Kid Eats Soap. Just Sayin'.
Wednesday, September 23, 2009 at 1:06PM | Mr Lady
Three kids in, I know a few things about how their little brains develop and one of those things I can track like clockwork is the leap into empathy. I've watched each one of my children go from one day, not being able to think past their noses to the very next day, taking on the weight of the world. All children do this. I didn't realize when my first kid was one year old that he was incapable of feeling sorry or understanding what share meant or realizing that pulling momma's hair hurt her, because and I hate to go all Freud on your buttocks but I'm going all Freud on your buttocks, he was still stuck in his Id.* By kid three, I had that one all figured out, and good GOD did my parenting life get easier. Banging your head against year old bricks walls hurts after a while.
Somewhere in-between the Ego* and the Superego*, in my opinion, is where the capacity for empathy lies. It's the instinctual part of the Superego, the ingrained tendency that makes a person able to accept moral guidance and incorporate it into themselves. If I'm correct, and I'm probably not, I think it was Freud who thought that the only real instinct we have is sucking; that everything else is taught or developed. I bet I'm wrong, and I should probably just erase that line, but it goes to my point so I'll leave it. I went to public high school; sue me.
I Sure Hope There Aren't Any Psych Majors Reading My Blog, Because I'm About To Talk Out Of My Ass Aside:
*For all you non-geeks who don't study psychology for fun because you have lives or something:
I think empathy is instinctual. I think that, unlike walking or talking which also just happen, that empathy is actually a necessary development, like the ability to suckle. You need it to survive. You know how you sometimes notice that your infant or toddler can immediately sniff out the good guys from the bad guys? That's what I'm talking about. Children instinctively can read people; they'll know who is going to love them and feed them and they know who's a risk. Like my neighbor baby, how he doesn't cry when the 11 year old holds him but he does when the 9 year old does. They both love him equally, but the 9 year old just isn't physically big enough to hold him safely. And the baby knows that, instinctively. No one told him that, my boy doesn't hold him any differently than his big brother does, and the kid has never so much as seen a measuring tape..he just knows. It's survival.
Random excuse to insert british sub-pop aside:
I also believe that you can over-develop a child's empathy-drive once the Superego kicks in and turn them into paranoid introverts who are so afraid of what everyone thinks of them, they are socially crippled. I think you can under-develop it and have children who grow into adults who are pariahs.
Musical interlude:
*ahem* I think that the one, and maybe only, distinct advantage to having multiple children is that they are given more opportunities to develop empathy, and therein humility, than a single child. Take my three; the first two were born right on top of each other and so have always had to take each other's feelings into consideration. My third? She's more or less an only child. She's coming into this stage WAY later than her brothers did, because she's really never had to before.
Until just recently, if she hurt someone or did something naughty, she'd instantly burst into tears because she knew that tears were called for, she just didn't know why. She felt what the proper feeling was, she just couldn't categorize it because that empathic sense hadn't kicked in yet, so what she'd do it start rattling off everything she could think of that might quantify the bad feelings floating in the air.
"3of3, you may NOT grab the gerbil by its tail and wing it around. That HURTS Niblow." This makes no sense to her, because she isn't in pain, so the gerbil couldn't be. If it's real, it has to be happening to HER. There's your Id.
"Momma! *tears flow* I tired! I hungry! My self hoits! I meed take a nap! You hoit me!" Straight to her Id; her base needs. Freud wasn't as insane as everyone thinks he was. Coke whore incestuous pedophile, sure, but a very sane one. He'd totally get the chair today.
She's also not really ever had to fight for anything; attention, toys, food, education...she's had me, more or less undistracted, for her entire life. And the thing with children developing empathy isn't that, like we associate with the word, that they become sensitive, kind, humans...it's that they start not just understanding the feelings of others, but are able to manipulate them. They are able to get into your head and feel from your angle, and use that information.
For the most part, this means that when my daughter's friend hurts his toe, she can realize that he feels pain even though she can't feel it, she can assess that pain and imagine it, and she can then take steps to alter it. She can pull from her surroundings and change his perspective on his pain, with a candy or a toy or a joke.
What this also means, however, is that when her friend makes her angry or accidentally hurts her when he takes one of his toys out of her hand, she can feel that pain, she can take the steps she needs to alter it (telling me) and then she can project it onto him. She can pull from her surroundings and change her friend's perspective, to make him feel her pain, too.
She can understand situations and assess them, and it doesn't always happen in the happy way.
She can walk right out of the front door, right after she's ratted him out and I've consoled her, and march across the street to that boy, her friend, and say, "My momma says you a baaaaad boy", even though her momma said no such thing. She knows that boy will care, because she understands his feelings, and when he asks, "Did she say she didn't like me anymore?" she'll tell him that I did. Just to rub it in. Just to manipulate his feelings and force-feed him her pain. Just to make him cry, too.
What she doesn't get, because she hasn't reached the Superego yet, is that what she's done is called "mean" and "lying" and because she's just done what comes naturally and hasn't yet learned the societal, moral ramifications of reverse-empathy. Or being a shithead. Call it what you will.
She can be a week from four and not know what a lie is because she has no reason to lie in her everyday life. She's never emotionally challenged because she deals with ME all day and almost no one else. Her brother, my middle son, had lying down to an artform by the time he could string a sentence together, because he had an older brother. His older brother had dominating and, well, mind-fucking down by the time his brother had lying down, because he had a little brother. My third has a mom and some playdough. My third is behind the curve.
My third had to learn what lying was today when I ran outside, grabbed her by her little arm, drug her back over to her friend and asked her, in front of him, if she'd said what I heard her say. Luckily, she's not actually consciously "lying" yet, so much as assaulting feelings with skill, so she naturally fessed right up to it. She had no idea that she could lie her way out of that one....yet. And then we talked about hurting people and making up mean stories and all the while, I held her right in front of her friend so the only thing she could see was his sad little sweet face and she GOT it. She said she was sorry. She offered him a hug. She took her little butt in the house all by herself for the few minutes it took her to process the concept that she'd hurt someone, with her mind.
A belief structure was put into place today, and that was that she may not use words to hurt people, especially not made up ones. A bridge between the Ego and the Superego was built. And I realized that if I don't get have another baby or enroll this kid in preschool soon, I'm totally going to have to change her name to Heather. And hide the drain cleaner.
Somewhere in-between the Ego* and the Superego*, in my opinion, is where the capacity for empathy lies. It's the instinctual part of the Superego, the ingrained tendency that makes a person able to accept moral guidance and incorporate it into themselves. If I'm correct, and I'm probably not, I think it was Freud who thought that the only real instinct we have is sucking; that everything else is taught or developed. I bet I'm wrong, and I should probably just erase that line, but it goes to my point so I'll leave it. I went to public high school; sue me.
I Sure Hope There Aren't Any Psych Majors Reading My Blog, Because I'm About To Talk Out Of My Ass Aside:
*For all you non-geeks who don't study psychology for fun because you have lives or something:
- Id is the personality that you're born with, the one that functions solely on need. (Or, as Freud would state, pleasure.) It makes sure you get what you need, and it doesn't much see past that.
- Ego is one step past that. It still wants and pursues getting its needs/desires filled, but can assess situations and comprehend realities. It starts to understand, not just demand.
- Superego is what happens when you introduce a belief structure and nurture the ego. It's your ability to adopt what you are taught is right or wrong. It's your moral makeup.
I think empathy is instinctual. I think that, unlike walking or talking which also just happen, that empathy is actually a necessary development, like the ability to suckle. You need it to survive. You know how you sometimes notice that your infant or toddler can immediately sniff out the good guys from the bad guys? That's what I'm talking about. Children instinctively can read people; they'll know who is going to love them and feed them and they know who's a risk. Like my neighbor baby, how he doesn't cry when the 11 year old holds him but he does when the 9 year old does. They both love him equally, but the 9 year old just isn't physically big enough to hold him safely. And the baby knows that, instinctively. No one told him that, my boy doesn't hold him any differently than his big brother does, and the kid has never so much as seen a measuring tape..he just knows. It's survival.
Random excuse to insert british sub-pop aside:
I also believe that you can over-develop a child's empathy-drive once the Superego kicks in and turn them into paranoid introverts who are so afraid of what everyone thinks of them, they are socially crippled. I think you can under-develop it and have children who grow into adults who are pariahs.
Musical interlude:
*ahem* I think that the one, and maybe only, distinct advantage to having multiple children is that they are given more opportunities to develop empathy, and therein humility, than a single child. Take my three; the first two were born right on top of each other and so have always had to take each other's feelings into consideration. My third? She's more or less an only child. She's coming into this stage WAY later than her brothers did, because she's really never had to before.
Until just recently, if she hurt someone or did something naughty, she'd instantly burst into tears because she knew that tears were called for, she just didn't know why. She felt what the proper feeling was, she just couldn't categorize it because that empathic sense hadn't kicked in yet, so what she'd do it start rattling off everything she could think of that might quantify the bad feelings floating in the air.
"3of3, you may NOT grab the gerbil by its tail and wing it around. That HURTS Niblow." This makes no sense to her, because she isn't in pain, so the gerbil couldn't be. If it's real, it has to be happening to HER. There's your Id.
"Momma! *tears flow* I tired! I hungry! My self hoits! I meed take a nap! You hoit me!" Straight to her Id; her base needs. Freud wasn't as insane as everyone thinks he was. Coke whore incestuous pedophile, sure, but a very sane one. He'd totally get the chair today.
She's also not really ever had to fight for anything; attention, toys, food, education...she's had me, more or less undistracted, for her entire life. And the thing with children developing empathy isn't that, like we associate with the word, that they become sensitive, kind, humans...it's that they start not just understanding the feelings of others, but are able to manipulate them. They are able to get into your head and feel from your angle, and use that information.
For the most part, this means that when my daughter's friend hurts his toe, she can realize that he feels pain even though she can't feel it, she can assess that pain and imagine it, and she can then take steps to alter it. She can pull from her surroundings and change his perspective on his pain, with a candy or a toy or a joke.
What this also means, however, is that when her friend makes her angry or accidentally hurts her when he takes one of his toys out of her hand, she can feel that pain, she can take the steps she needs to alter it (telling me) and then she can project it onto him. She can pull from her surroundings and change her friend's perspective, to make him feel her pain, too.
She can understand situations and assess them, and it doesn't always happen in the happy way.
She can walk right out of the front door, right after she's ratted him out and I've consoled her, and march across the street to that boy, her friend, and say, "My momma says you a baaaaad boy", even though her momma said no such thing. She knows that boy will care, because she understands his feelings, and when he asks, "Did she say she didn't like me anymore?" she'll tell him that I did. Just to rub it in. Just to manipulate his feelings and force-feed him her pain. Just to make him cry, too.
What she doesn't get, because she hasn't reached the Superego yet, is that what she's done is called "mean" and "lying" and because she's just done what comes naturally and hasn't yet learned the societal, moral ramifications of reverse-empathy. Or being a shithead. Call it what you will.
She can be a week from four and not know what a lie is because she has no reason to lie in her everyday life. She's never emotionally challenged because she deals with ME all day and almost no one else. Her brother, my middle son, had lying down to an artform by the time he could string a sentence together, because he had an older brother. His older brother had dominating and, well, mind-fucking down by the time his brother had lying down, because he had a little brother. My third has a mom and some playdough. My third is behind the curve.
My third had to learn what lying was today when I ran outside, grabbed her by her little arm, drug her back over to her friend and asked her, in front of him, if she'd said what I heard her say. Luckily, she's not actually consciously "lying" yet, so much as assaulting feelings with skill, so she naturally fessed right up to it. She had no idea that she could lie her way out of that one....yet. And then we talked about hurting people and making up mean stories and all the while, I held her right in front of her friend so the only thing she could see was his sad little sweet face and she GOT it. She said she was sorry. She offered him a hug. She took her little butt in the house all by herself for the few minutes it took her to process the concept that she'd hurt someone, with her mind.
A belief structure was put into place today, and that was that she may not use words to hurt people, especially not made up ones. A bridge between the Ego and the Superego was built. And I realized that if I don't get have another baby or enroll this kid in preschool soon, I'm totally going to have to change her name to Heather. And hide the drain cleaner.
Reader Comments (15)
My daughter who, if I'm not mistaken, is only slightly older than yours, has been experimenting with lying as well. I can most definitely say that she understands what it is. Fortunately I have yet to see her use it to hurt other kids' feelings...it's mostly a diversionary tactic at this point.
If I DO catch her doing it though, I'll take the same course of action you did. That type of manipulation has to be nipped in the bud. If its not, they'll end up sitting in the asshole section of the cafeteria.
I have been watching this happen with my 4 year old neighbors. One of the boys totally gets that he can mess with the other 4 year old's head. And he does it on purpose. He isn't lying, per se, but he is manipulating the shit out of the other one, and gets rewarded with a freak out of the first order by his friend. I cannot predict exactly what each one will end up doing professionally in their respective lives, but the ground work is so being set right this minute. I cannot WAIT for my child to get to this stage.
Or being a shithead. Call it what you will. Heh.
Also, I want to print this out and hand it out to everyone I know with children.
Also also, I that means I think it was awesome.
In case you were wondering. ;-)
Oh, thank you jebus, it has been so long since I HAD a kid Owen's age that I had totally forgotten that they ALL did it; I have been wondering if I should just lock him up now. So really, Owen thanks you as well!
I can remember being shocked when a friend's child started to lie blatently at an early age. My own (number 1 and only at the time) wouldn't have dreamt of it. And she continued to not dream of it until number 2 came along, and number 2 taught number 1 everything she knows about lying.
Luckily number 2 has a bit of a tell, and if I ask her enough times with that stern-growing-sterner voice, and the ever lowering eyebrows she eventually cracks and confesses. Actually, I've recently discovered that turning around and saying "So number 1 is the liar then?" is extremely successful at making number 2 fess up, so maybe there is some empathy there.
I spent some time with a 2-year-old last week. His mom was really trying to instill empathy in him, and he was so not getting it. He would yell, "I push the baby!" And then, of course, push the baby. And then his mom would ask him if the baby liked being pushed and he would yell, "No! I push the baby AGAIN!" I remember bashing my own head against that brick wall, and I felt for her. It's hard to trust that, in time, your child will figure it out and not be a total sociopath. Having that experience and trust in the process really does make parenting subsequent children easier.
Yeah, it's fascinating how they learn to lie even without you teaching it. Amazing how lies are actually learned instinctively.
kinda off topic, but I'm wondering for a long time why it's called "Id".
Can't you just tell them that when they lie, Jesus gets stabbed in the face? That would probably work.
I can barely type. .. I'm still hunched over laughing at the comment from Avitable. . .Ahhhhhh. .. great post:)
The law in our house is that the punishment for lying is WAAAAAYYYYY worse than anything they could possibly have done.. . .we keep it pretty real. .. you lie. ..you pay.
The end.
As a psych major, I have to say that if you gave a lecture on reverse-empathy and shitheadism, you'd have a lot of people taking notes penis - I mean pencils - in hand. Because a great lecture requires some excellent breasts - I mean breadths - of view. (fucking Freud!).
My daughter is almost 5 and is just starting to understand that empathy is all the time. That she doesn't get to pick and choose when to show empathy. It's been a hard road. Glad you jumped a hurdle today. It makes the next one easier.
Mine is a few months younger and has just started to lie, only she has absolutely no idea she's lying. It's like she's following a script. She knows that if she asks mommy, mommy will say "no." She knows that if she asks daddy, daddy will say to ask mommy. But, if she tells daddy that mommy already said "yes," it's free sailing every time. The pain-in-the-ass of it all for me is that she has no concept that what she has done is wrong, but -OH!- the big guy who just got manipulated sure does and he is NEVER going to catch on. Ever.
Current brain research shows that empathy is learned and there is a window of opportunity in which to learn it. If left undeveloped, the ability to feel/display etc empathy will be lost. Forever. This ability is directly related to the love a child is shown. (not really a fan of Freud)
Wow, I'm seriously impressed. I'd never thought about it like that, but that makes total sense. Definitely marking this one to remember in the future. Great teaching moment ;) (for some reason I really wanted to put that, even though I HATE that phrase from my ed classes)
I didn't click the "musical interlude" cuz I wanna guess:
Morissey?
My personal choice for all-time most whiny, stuck-in-Id, motherfucking irritating musician evah?
And: (english lit major, not psych major) if trolls live under bridges (I'm talking the folktale kind) and our job is to observe, and to occasionally yank our little developing humans down & tell them off and ultimatley build a bridge for them to walk across from Id to SuperEgo, does that make us trolls?
Yeah. I thought so. (combing out long snarly Mama Troll hairdo. Holding up gnarled fist to bump. Awesome job Lady)